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Talk:One month of Lisette's blog
Please Note: The discussion on these pages started after teachers in two workshops--one with the New York City Writing Project and one with Looking Both Ways--used descriptive, collaborative processes to look closely at one of Lisette's in-school posts and one of her out-of-school blog entries. These teachers then asked to discuss these questions: *What do you understand about blogging having looked at Lisette's work? *What issues or questions do you have about blogging? *How can blogging be both personally meaningful and intellectually rich for young people? To add to this discussion, either... :...open a section listed below and add your comments at the bottom or :...click on the add tab at the top your writing Lisette, I'd like you to know that I think you're a pretty good writer -- you are expressive, organized and clear! Thank you for sharing your work with all of us here at Loooking Both Ways B O'B I believe that your writing shows own mind and you are a confident person. Now transfer this confidence to your approach to educational achievement. m.k This is a shoutout to Lisette Yo, keep up the good work, girl! I am using a web site to post assignments and other resources for student to summarize, add thoughts, and pose clarifying questions. I need clarification on the use of blogging in the academic arena. Should I post a blogging page or site for students to respond to classroom, school, and personal issues? Why? Please provide guidelines that I need to consider. You may respond to Enrique R. Rodriguez, ERodrig25@nycboe.net. Thanks. Liz. Keep on, keepin' on! One Month of Keepin' It Real - Go Lisette! What's good Lisette? I am Wayne and I am in a workshop for teachers with Paul from your school. We read several of your blog and xanga entries to learn the different ways teens use online writing and reading. I like your writing because it's confident, clear and shows you have a lot of heart to put yourself out there like you do. I teach English at Murry Bergtraum High School and I hope to discover that my students already do blogs or xangas and if not introduce it to them. blog comment blogging is kewl. i heart it. i like reading student blogs. i like seeing how the writer works through a problem by asking q's and then offering answers as possible solutions to the main q. blogging can be useful to a classroom because T and Ss can look at entries critically--that is, look at elements of style, literary elements (possibly), audience, tone, etc. Lisette is a talented writer. it was fun to read her entries. rhetorical sophistication This is not just me -- I heard several people say this in a discussion, specifically of the "Don't make a big deal over his age" post -- but I was struck by the rhetorical sophistication and strong sense of audience in this supposedly "private" piece of writing (which of course is not so private, being on the World Wide Web). There was question-posing (some but not all rhetorical), scenario-sketching, clear logic. Very impressive -- and by no means unconsciously so. --George LBW on blogging It seems quite clear that blogging is about an inner student world becoming external. My main concern about this, as with many web related acts, is privacy, safety, and motivation. It seems the result of isolation and a wish to be heard or known. I see no massive, negative issue with this, but am concerned about the counseling aspect of this on the teacher's or administrator's part once they begin reading... On the other hand, it is wonderful and even gratifying to know that the language and medium may be altered, but that little else has. We are so concerned that our students are not engaged, and not writing or thinking enough, and here, in this surreal world, we find them doing all of the above--free of the constraints of classical, academic literacy. It seems that students engaged on this level at a young age are very likely to keep reading and writing as they age, and even, as they leave classrooms. -S. Nair Lisette's blog and Xanga discussion It seems quite clear that this technology has a lot of possibilities and a lot of problems. What is the place for blogging in the college classroom is one question - where is it's place in the collegiate environment -- in the academic communal disucssion that is part of the academy? I like the freedom that is allowed in this collaborative style of writing - but I feel that it needs some thinking about how to use the format to make it a useful classroom tool -- or better a tool to reveal text and informed opinion. The voice of the writer is evident in Lisette's writing as well as her ability to think through a personal problem. She is able to talk to her mother in her school blog and to her classmates in the Xanga site. But what would her voice be like if she were address the issues presented in a New York Times editorial? Would it be appropriate to continue to use the informal voice or should the blog take on the more formal academic voice? Could the blog be used as a place to brainstorm ideas? In any case, it is a powerful place of commuication that is evolving and it is probably a good idea for academics to get on board and make it work for the academy. Alan students blogs I am curious how a student like Lisette, who seems to write prolifically in a variety of online destinations, approaches classroom writing assignments and school in general. Are students who blog fervently and use writing as a frequent tool students who embrace the tool of writing in their academic work or are these students connecting to these forms of writing because they are alienated from school writing? I there is no one answer as there isn't a "typical" studnet on these sites. How can teachers capitalize on what is a clear motivation to use writing a way to build academic writing? Understanding of Blogging From our cursory introduction to blogging, I understand that it is very personal. In the "olden days" people wrote diaries. Now, it seems that diaries have become public webpages. Lisette writes informally on/in(?) her blog. Her writing is fun to read. It might earn her an "A" in a creative writing class. On the other hand, I hope Lisette knows that she should not write so informally in most college classes. My college students would be penalized for using "aint" "y'all" and all those curse words! I really enjoyed Lisette's writing, but, I wouldn't accept it in a college homework assignment. blogging is using what you know to do what you want Observing Lisette's school and personal blogs I notice she uses blog entries to hash out and at times respond to ideas she has. It's a very effective way of broadcasting your feelings and reflections on issues without addressing any one person in particular. So you get all the passion of confronting the idea, but you don't come across as personally attacking anyone since you're not aiming your artument at a specific person. It seems like blogging for the academic and the social side of school can serve useful purposes. On the social side, it's a discussion forum to air out ideas, respond to rumors, pose opinions and address ideas that there is either not enough time or no accesible forum in school in which to bring these up. Academically, this can be a shared experience for students all learning the same ideas at the same time to help each other out with resources, discussions and explanations of ideas. In effect, talking out ideas you learn about in school via the internet could be a lot more useful than even reading the textbook alone: the language is closer to your own, and the writing style is a lot more clear and interesting. I'm a big believer in blogging for students outside the classroom setting. Comment on Lisette's Blog Hi Lisette, Thanks for sharing your blog with us. I respect your willingness to be so transparent with us and the world. Your insightful writing demonstrates your maturity and your intelligence. Best wishes to you! Response from Christopher I understand how blogging can offer students a chance to express themselves in a variety of ways, which together give a sense of who that person is. They can blog with poetry, responses, arguments, information, etc. I see how blogging can also be both academic and personally meaningful because students can explore their own thoughts and feelings. They can respond to their peers which is important as they grow and mature into adults. It is academic in the sense that they practice organizing their ideas, supporting and explaining themselves, offering examples and details, and finding out if they are clearly expressing themselves. If their reader doesn't understand what they are trying to say, or has a question, then the student who wrote the blog can get feedback and work on improving how well they say whatever it is they intended to say. One of the hardest problems is actually getting students to write. Being on the computer is more interesting and doesn't tire out your hand as quickly, so students are more willing to write that way. Also, allowing them to write about something that personally interests them is a high motivator. When students get worked up and start responding back and forth to each other's blogs, then it's challenging them to prove their point or clarify what it is they mean. It is intellectually stimulating and academically challenging. And fun. LisetteLisetteLisette(Cary Grant voice) Dear Lisette what a bright gal you are! stop worrying about what other people are saying/thinking about you! stay strong! I think that blogging can be a great place for young people to be able to express and vent and emote and be themselves in a free-style, free-form forum. It also enables them to practice verbal skills and become more fluid with expressive language. AND it gives them access to the voices of their peers which in turn may inspire/inform more writing, more voices, as well as a little, healthy "in house" competition not overtly directed or monitored (or "graded") by teachers. kids need a place to be themselves. in the past there were hiding places, clubhouses, secret societies, where young people could negotiate and navigate amongst themselves the straits of society leading to adulthood. these days with television and iPods and video games and people staying in the house and not being able to go outside and "hang out" (except in school) these conversations can't occur in the way they did "back in the day". so a blog can be a great place to put out all those feelings and thoughts and get some feedback. it can be safe and nurturing if done in the right way, with caring adults in charge. claudia g What I see from this blog I see that high school students can bring their own issues and language into the classroom, bringing along with these the thought and energy that the classroom also needs. It's heartening. I see that authentic writing assignments create real writers. This student is a real writer. She has voice. Her writing is well structured. She provides arguments and conclusions within an organized structure. Issues I have include privacy. This student doesn't care obviously, but people I work with, and myself, we continue to worry about such things. I'm wondering if what we all need is the blank space in the screen in front of us, the pregnant pause when only writing will fill in the gap. I used to think that being a writing teacher meant sucking the words out of my victims. It sounds vicious, but it worked. Actually high school students probably can lead the way for people like me as far as technology is concerned. Personally meaningful and intellectually rich? Does this beg the question that the two don't often go together or that school tends not to be meaningful or rich? I think education has to include personal connections and intellectual depth. Test prep and graduation requirements may miss the mark, but that doesn't excuse educators from sharing the personal connections and intellectually rich life of educated people. Response from Grace What do you understand about blogging having looked at Lisette's work? Her blog responses were about real school issues. They were about things that she experienced outside of the "blog world".These are important issues to her - within the school community. I am not sure about what the function of doing this on a blog serves that a school discussion board would not? She is not talking to the "world" - the big world - she is talking to her own world of peers and parents. Why a blog? What issues or questions do you have about blogging? How conscious - or unconscious - are bloggers of the audience when the audience is "the whole wide world"? Her responses were clearly aimed at her school audience. Is the blog the right place for this? Or are we supposed to forget about the huge number of readers "out there" and just write (or talk?!!!) to whatever issue is at hand. How can blogging be both personally meaningful and intellectually rich for young people? I think the personally meaningful part is the fact that a young person can have a sense of being heard. In this case, she was being heard by her peers because of a school-designed setting. I am wondering what she would say if I (or we) responded to her. This brings me to the intellectual point of view. Would she have an even more valid argument in that we, more than her peers, "do not know who she is." Yes, we have spent some time discussing, intellectually, what she shows in her writing. But I am not sure what she herself would gain intellectually. Grace Response from Ed O. What do you understand about blogging having looked at Lisette's work? What issues or questions do you have about blogging? How can blogging be both personally meaningful and intellectually rich for young people? What I understand first is the range of content and purpose possible for blogs. It can be personal and academic; it can be directed toward people you know and a broader community out there. We read two pieces from Lisette's blogs, one around an issue related to her personal life that she clearly has been thinking about and wants to express her views on and the other other around a school situation, directed clearly to her classmates. I understand its public nature. The blog allows you to post thoughts that classmates, teachers, and trhe broader unknown out there can read. (Would I want to share my thoughts about a school situation and my feelings in this way with my classmates? And in this voice with my teachers and principal? I am not sure, but you have the chance to get it out there.) Blogs provide opportunities for code-switching. The shifts in language and tone are rich. Blogs allows a student like Lisette to use her command of various forms of English, to write in various genres, to express opinions and voice emotions in powerful ways not often seen in traditional assignments. I was impressed when we discovered the organization in some of her prompts, the structured arguments she developed. There was an essay or kernel of an essay that could be developed in more traditional ways had she wanted to do so about a topic that was of real concern to her. A blog might also provide opporuntities for students to raise issues that affect the classroom or school community and could be discussed further online and in person. It provides teachers with a sense of the underlife of the class/school as well as the outside life of students. The issue or question for me is always one of privacy and suitability. What is appropriate and what is not for school? Do boundaries need to be set up? Can they be set up? What do I feel about everything being so public? I am uncomfortable with that, and I imagine there may be students who are too. Do teachers need to be more protective of their students once blogging begins? Ed Lisette I am unable to separate the ethical problems I have surrounding the institution of the "blog" as I ponder Lisette's blogs and ponder using blogs in general, in both academic and nonacademic settings. First and foremost, the idea of merging education with blogging seems paradoxical to me, and the concept of a "web log" in and of itself connotes a very public forum for thoughts, reflections, and ideas which are quite private . That said, after reviewing Lisette's xanga entry and in thinking about using xanga as an academic tool, I would like to emphasize the high level of literacy in her writing, apparent even through her use of slang and errouneous grammar. I am curious whether students really grasp the implications of posting a xanga entry. And if these implications are understood to some degree, how private and journal "like" are their entries? Are these really private thoughts? Is the concept of the blog counterintuitive to the concept of a log? Perhaps my questions are too ethically based, and they are certainly larger than a reflective response to one student's sample postings, but nonetheless questions I feel need to be raised, discussed, and eventually answered or worked through, especially as educators begin to use blogging in conjunction with academia. Lisette I am unable to separate the ethical problems I have surrounding the institution of the "blog" as I ponder Lisette's blogs and ponder using blogs in general, in both academic and nonacademic settings. First and foremost, the idea of merging education with blogging seems paradoxical to me, and the concept of a "web log" in and of itself connotes a very public forum for thoughts, reflections, and ideas which are quite private . That said, after reviewing Lisette's xanga entry and in thinking about using xanga as an academic tool, I would like to emphasize the high level of literacy in her writing, apparent even through her use of slang and errouneous grammar. I am curious whether students really grasp the implications of posting a xanga entry. And if these implications are understood to some degree, how private and journal "like" are their entries? Are these really private thoughts? Is the concept of the blog counterintuitive to the concept of a log? Perhaps my questions are too ethically based, and they are certainly larger than a reflective response to one student's sample postings, but nonetheless questions I feel need to be raised, discussed, and eventually answered or worked through, especially as educators begin to use blogging in conjunction with academia. Lisette's writing 1. What do you understand about blogging having looked at Lisette's work? 2. What issues or questions do you have about blogging? 3. How can blogging be both personally meaningful and intellectually rich for young people? Having looked at Lisette's school blog and an entry from her personal blog I now better understand how the personal and more formal writing comes together when writing in public spaces. I also see how the opportunity to "write" for an audience allows a student (anyone in the process of learning) to practice and develop fluency. The public venue of a blog motivates one to want to write because there is always a real audience (and for some of us it's an obstacle because we are not sure of who will be reading our writing). I'm impressed with Lisette's use of language and her ability to use the vernacular in creative and clear expository writing. It makes the writing more readable and interesting. The issue that these particular entries raise revolves around the question of how one responds to content in postings of such a personal nature? Is the writer seeking advice or direction or just putting out her position? How does one appropriately respond to emotionally laden concerns, particularly when there isn't a personal connection? I wonder, Lisette, what your writing looks like when you are given an assignment? Do you use the same carefully laid out structure to present your argument? Are your words as carefully chosen or do you rely on the vocabularly with which you are most familiar? How does writing in your spoken language, the language with which you are most comfortable, influence the writing you do for school, on tests and for assigned essays? Did you always write as much and as well or do you see differences in your writing since you began blogging? Bloggin' personally meaningful, intellectually rich Lisette writes with conviction and voice in her blog. She writes with skill and linguistic fluidity. She writes with 16 year old logic and 14 yr. old emotional maturity, with anger and with freedom. Therefore, there can be no doubt that blogging is personally meaningful for her. Certainly nothing in my own personal blog has more power than the pieces we have read of hers, nor are my writings more conscious of their audience. I really connect with her because of this. She and I are out there leaving little bits of ourselves in cyberspace--a little e-graffiti on the bathroom walls of the web. I rant therefore I am! As for the intellectual richness, it is hard to overestimate the value of thinking in print. Lisette is cultivating the intellectual habit of anticipating opposition. She is creating for herself, out of her life experience, her readings, her personal discussions, a set of propaganda rules. I see a life in advertising, diving into our collective subconscious to get us to spend whatever the taxman leaves us on anti-bacterial lipstick guaranteeing the safest possible oral gratification. That is, if she survives her violent encounters with the walls of her own emotional immaturity. Joe From Karen Hi Lisette Here we are in the Saturday technology workshop looking at several pieces of your writing, both in the school blog and in xanga. We had an interesting discussion about the various kinds of skills we could see in your writing as we looked at a couple of the entries. We are hoping you don't mind having people look closely at your writing! Seeing your blog makes me think that the students I work with would enjoy having blogs too. One thing it seems like blogs do it make the distinction between what's school work and what's personal less clear than it might be in other contexts. There seems to be a lot of overlap, especially when people go back and forth between school and personal blogs. It seems like blogs give young people (and older people too) a chance to write about issues going on in their lives, write things like poems, and also write about their reading. So there's sort of a mix of personal and school-type writing. It's a funny feeling for everything to be public, in a way. We're responding to your writing, but we don't really know you (I guess that isn't so unusual on the web), and then we were wondering how you would respond to our response. I was just looking at your poem, "Ready," and enjoying the line, "Keys in one hand and confidence in the other." I hope you'll keep writing. response from Nancy I am still concerned about the public nature of blogs.Your words are out there for everyone to read...but that's me. It obviously does not seem to bother these student bloggers. They are right out there with their words and ideas and I think it is rather healthy. For those students being encouraged to use blogs both in and out of schools it is a way to be heard and a place to have their say. We only looked at two examples of Lisette's work but it felt like she was able to adapt her writing style to her audience yet also maintain her voice as a writer. I don't know, there seems to be something about getting a response from others that makes this immediate and real. I see it as another way to build community in a classroom but I am cautious and concerned about how rules or norms established. I've got questions about teacher control and what goes up on a class blog simply because of its public nature.